They Call Me Mista Yu
“They Call Me Mista Yu” is a Christian podcast whose topics include: family, faith, relationships, gardening, and even sports and pop culture! We're the All Purpose Pod for an All Purpose Life discussing topics that affect the whole person. And we want the whole person to be fully engaged with the creative, collaborative, life-changing presence of the Creator! At the core of all we do is Jesus Christ!
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They Call Me Mista Yu
One On One with Mista Yu - Bridging Faith & Leadership w/ Dr. Rosemary Downer
Have a question for Mista Yu? Text the show and he’ll answer it personally.
Dr. Rosemary Downer shares her journey from Jamaica to Canada to Maryland, coining herself a "Jack American" who discovered that hard work, seizing opportunities, and authentic relationships are universal principles that transcend location. Her experience working with homeless families revealed that poverty is primarily a mindset rather than simply a lack of resources.
• Founder of BRYDGES (Building Responsible Youth by Delivering Genuine Enrichment Services), a ministry training youth leaders across multiple churches
• Distinguishes between religion (empty practices) and relationship (living according to God's word with active communication)
• Worked for 20 years at USDA as a social science researcher studying program participation rates
• Author of multiple books including "Leaders Are Like Giraffes," which uses giraffe anatomy to illustrate leadership principles
• Teaches that forgiveness is not optional but a divine mandate that benefits the wounded person more than the offender
• Emphasizes emotional wholeness as essential for effective leadership and ministry
• Advocates for personal disciplines including unhurried devotional time before starting the day's activities
Visit booksbyrosemary.com to explore Dr. Downer's books on leadership, forgiveness, and spiritual growth.
Discover Dr. Downer's books, leadership training resources, and forgiveness studies at booksbyrosemary.com, and experience the wisdom of someone who's turned life's journey into a masterclass on authentic leadership.
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Welcome back to one on one with Mr U. I'm your host, mr U, of course, and we have in the house today Dr Rosemary Downer, noted author and leadership trainer. We are excited about hearing some of her thoughts of her creative works and all she's doing. Thanks for joining us. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. My pleasure. We had so much fun having our pre-production meeting and just kind of just talking through some things. You've got an incredible story. I hope we have the time and the capacity to kind of get into a good bit of it. But we'll take our time and see what we can do. But one of the first thing I want to talk to you about, if we talk a little bit about your journey, I love hearing about my interviewees journey from where they got from one place to another, and we talked about your accent, how people can hear it Jamaica to Canada, all the way to Maryland, with a little bit of English ties kind of mixed in there. So what would you say First? Kind of describe your journey for us as brief as you can, and then I'll move on to our next question.
Speaker 1:Well first of all, I call myself a Jack American.
Speaker 2:I created that word Jamaican, Canadian, American.
Speaker 1:I like it?
Speaker 2:Yes. So my parents migrated from Jamaica to Canada and I lived in Canada for about nine, 10 years and I then migrated. I did. My family is still in Canada, entire family I migrated. I did one year of college in Canada and in. Ontario and then moved to Maryland to go to University of Maryland, college Park, and I've been here since now 40 plus years.
Speaker 1:So, yes, Right, I like the term Jack American. I have some advice for you, if you don't mind taking it from me get t-shirts made now. Lock that name in. I've never heard it used. I think you might have something there. It will create competition at the grocery store at the very least. But I think you can do some good marketing with that.
Speaker 2:Jack American. I like it, I like it.
Speaker 1:On this journey from Jamaica all the way through Canada to Maryland. What would you say are three things you learned most about yourself throughout this journey?
Speaker 2:The journey.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, three things.
Speaker 2:Wow Well, hard work pays off, no matter where you are no matter where you live. You don't get stuff, you work for it. And in working number two, you take advantage of opportunities because you want to make the best life possible for yourself.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And if you have kids, for your children. So hard work. Number one take advantage of opportunities that are available to you and just be yourself wherever you find yourself. People are people wherever you are. That's number three whether you are in the islands, whether you are in cold Canada which is not always cold, by the way, some people think it's cold all year round. I thought that's wrong.
Speaker 2:No, no, we have hot summers in Canada, really Okay, interesting. So wherever you are, people are people, despite where they're from, what they look like. Yeah, just be you, be authentic, treat people the way you want to be treated, wherever you are on the planet.
Speaker 1:I love that. It's difficult to get back to that because you do a lot of leadership training and those points are really important for any leader. Hopefully we can get into that before the end of the episode today. What you mentioned about Jamaica and the rough economic situation going on, I definitely can't relate. My mom's from the uh, the us virgin islands, my grandmother was from panama when she was alive. I got some cuban roots somewhere in there too and I've just seen a lot of that. I heard a lot of those similar challenges. Why do you think it was that there was so much rough economics in jamaica specifically? Why do you think that was what you mean to?
Speaker 2:know. Well, I wouldn't say specifically, because it's in a lot of places. Yeah, absolutely Right. So it's just the structure of I can't tell you why. Actually, to be very honest, it's just very challenging there, career-wise, economically. So what I mean is you have some very, very rich people, you have some huge houses, some plush landscapes, and then you have those that are struggling, that are poor, yeah, and then you have a few that are in between so and and, and it's quite a. The poverty rate you could say is maybe quite high especially in maybe the country, the parishes, um, so yeah, it's it.
Speaker 2:It could be rough there. It could be rough. You have to kind of struggle on your own and become become creative. Yeah, to make money.
Speaker 1:My very first time getting on an airplane via bwia. If you remember that, it's been.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's my airport yeah, we go to our barbados for the first time. You know, you see the magazines and the commercials. But back then in the 70s and 80s those commercials were rampant, kind of barbados and team. On the back of the magazines you see all the resort areas. So when I was going there, honestly I thought that's where my mom was from. I'm like okay, I went back, went to the parishes, like a Christ church in an area like that, and guess what? It wasn't that, it was the very polar opposite of that. I totally get that. It was definitely a shock for me. If you can change one thing or see breakthrough for your family, specifically what would you want to see? What would that be?
Speaker 2:Well, honestly, honestly, I'm a, I'm a believer, I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. So I would want to see my entire family saved. That's more, that's more important than a good job, a plush house, a big bank account. I would want to see all my nieces and nephews, all my siblings, all my aunts and uncles saved and follow Jesus Christ. That's what I would want to.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's a great answer. Great answer. We talked a little bit about Tehran, so that's kind of one of my I don't use the word bucket list, I don't use those terms, I don't look at life that way but definitely a place that I want to visit. I've been thinking about it for quite a while and it's been a constant. But Toronto is some place that you're very familiar. You spend a lot of time there. How would you describe it? Give me a little taste of what Toronto is going to be like when I get there to visit.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, you should go number one.
Speaker 1:I'm trying, I'm working on it, you should go.
Speaker 2:You may want to go during the summertime or go after April, between May, let's say September.
Speaker 1:In the summer, okay.
Speaker 2:Do that. What's going to happen if I miss?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:You might have to deal with some extraordinary cold. That's why, but I love Toronto. Any cuisine you want literally listen, any cuisine you want it's in the GTA, greater Toronto Area. It's there. It's very, very diverse and Toronto has changed significantly over the years, where it is now quite crowded because of the migration and the immigrants coming in. Yeah, but the culture is rich, entertainment is rich, diversity in restaurants is rich and if the food is there, the music is there, the culture yes.
Speaker 2:And almost every culture. They have their. What do they call it? It's like a festival day where it's a, it's it's Italian day or Jamaican day, so you have the Jamaican food and Jamaican music and they have blocks where they block off and you can almost find something going on. That's the other thing about the GTA. When the weather breaks, they it's like nonstop. Then they they take full advantage of the good weather. They're always outside doing something.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:You would not be bored going there during that time.
Speaker 1:The other city that doesn't sleep, huh, toronto, huh.
Speaker 2:Kind of Okay.
Speaker 1:I like that. I like that. I'm excited about visiting. I can't wait to get there. All right, what's your strongest memory from your time living there in that area over the years? What's your strongest memory, what's your most poignant moment?
Speaker 2:I have a few of them, but I'll think of one. I'll just share one. When I came to Maryland, I was going to college, of course, and it snowed. And it wasn't a lot of snow, it was just foolishness. It was just maybe two inches, probably two inches at the most. They closed the campus, they closed the school.
Speaker 1:I'm like what.
Speaker 2:You closed the school for two inches of snow. My memory is walking to school. I could walk from my home to my high school, runnymede Collegiate Institute. So anyone listening from Toronto, that's where I went to school Runnymede Collegiate Institute on Jane Street. I remember walking to school in the snow. I had on boots up to my knee and the snow was so deep it was going in my boots Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I remember that from New York.
Speaker 2:You are going to school. That's a memory.
Speaker 1:We are here in South Carolina. If that happens here there is no school, there's nothing, everything totally shuts down. I used to go to school in temperature and weather. I totally can relate when it happens down here, so it's laughable. When it happens down here it's really funny. But not funny because the accidents are record numbers. So that's not good, but it's kind of weird. I laugh a little bit at the end and stuff this is not shut down, the whole city weather.
Speaker 2:No, and you know what I got to like it?
Speaker 1:I got to like Lord let us know, cause you know what. Oh, why are you asking for it now? Okay, okay, yeah, because I get a day off. That makes sense. I got it, I got it, all right. So what's one Jamaican dish you miss that you were able to find in Canada? None, none. You talked about the food and the food and music and the culture that you couldn't find one dish from home that you like.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you said a dish that I like, that I couldn't find in Canada.
Speaker 1:No, you did find Well.
Speaker 2:first of all, I don't eat out much.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, so my eating is at home.
Speaker 2:Home cooking as a child, my mom cooked a mix of dishes. My mom cooked a mix of dishes. I would say, growing up in Canada, mom would cook some Jamaican dishes and Italian dishes. And I say Italian, it's Italian because back then in the 70s, the dominant immigrant population were Italians, so I grew up on spaghetti and meatballs. The dominant immigrant population were Italians, so I grew up on spaghetti and meatballs. I grew up on pasta, and pasta is still a big thing in Canada because there were so many Italians there. It was a mix of. It wasn't just Jamaican dishes, but it was a mix of Jamaican dishes and Italian dishes. So eating out and can't find it, that was not me. We mostly ate at home.
Speaker 1:I like that. I grew up on Italian dishes and Western dishes. Obviously I didn't even know why. It was just something I grew up on I was. I thought I was Italian. Do we have Italian relatives? Cause I had Italian food like twice a week. I'm like, are we Italian undercover here? So I get that. But that's the second point about the immigrations. That makes a lot of sense. Okay, so tell me about Bridges, or tell our audience about Bridges.
Speaker 2:Okay, so Bridges is spelled B-R-Y-D-G-E-S Building Responsible Youth by Delivering Genuine Enrichment Services. And that ministry is a parachurch ministry, meaning it's not headed by a church, it's not based in a church, but the ministry work with multiple churches. I was in youth ministry for many years and when I felt it was time for me to resign, step down from being in the ministry, I started looking for someone to take my place. And in my church I couldn't find anyone to take my place and I immediately thought right then, and there there's a need to train people to serve in the ministry as youth leaders. And that's how Bridges started, basically to train individuals who have an interest in youth ministry.
Speaker 2:But it grew. It grew from there where we started to sponsor kids from Southeast DC, one of the poorest, violence-ridden areas in the district Ward 7 and 8. We would get kids whose parents are incarcerated. We would take them to Pennsylvania for a week-long camp. We got funding to do that. We would have conference once a year. We have mission trips, bible competitions. It grew into a myriad of things that we did. So that's why delivering genuine enrichment services, meeting their emotional, physical, social and spiritual needs, I love that a lot.
Speaker 1:I love that a lot. I definitely share your love for leadership, training and seeing people be the best versions of themselves. I know I know how I answer the question, but how would you answer this question? What would you say is the biggest sacrifice you had to make to embark on this kind of mission To train people, to? Create this kind of environment.
Speaker 2:That's easy. That's easy, yeah, it is. It inserted itself in my life meaning I had a consulting business, precise research at the same time, and the business was doing very well. I was making more with precise than I was making from my regular job. Each year Because of Bridges, that business just about died because I didn't have time to do my full-time job. Time to do my full-time job, do ministry in my local church, do bridges and do precise. I wouldn't let my obligations to a local assembly suffer.
Speaker 2:but yeah, I lost a ton of money and it dwindled down to barely anything because, yeah, that was, that probably was my biggest sacrifice, plus time and lack of sleep and energy, and weird here in my body.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no entrepreneur stuff, then I guess, besides that loss of money part, yeah, it makes sense. Okay, what's the one thing you absolutely love about maryland? We talked about this in our pre-production, so I I know the answer already, but what's the one thing you absolutely love about maryland? I love the weather.
Speaker 2:I know the answer already, but what's the one thing you absolutely love about Maryland?
Speaker 1:I love the weather.
Speaker 2:I love the weather. Yeah, we don't get any extremes, meaning tornado, hurricane, flood, fires. You see that we don't get two feet of snow. One time We've gotten 18 inches, 21 inches, but even if we get two feet, it's it's rare, it's rare, it's rare, and usually in a week or so it's starting to melt. It's not there until April, like it is in Toronto. So we don't get. Summers are hot and humid, but that's short. You know, no huge, no, no huge extreme temperature that linger forever and ever. I love, I love the weather.
Speaker 1:But you guys get four seasons, though, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. That's something that I can't relate to anymore. I've been down here. I think we have two down here. It's really weird. But what's one thing you can't stand about? Maryland, and why.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, going back to business. Yes, maryland makes it very, very difficult and I say this slowly so it's very clear to the listener Very difficult for small business to do. Well, the stipulations Say that again. I mean the government, just scoop out every penny out of your pocket because you have a small business and you're doing well. Yeah, it's just ridiculous. And then you don't have kids and it they just, they just ruin you, ruin you. That's what I hate the most about maryland.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, bad I'm really shocked that you didn't say traffic everybody I noticed from the DMV area. We got some relatives that are in the area. It's their number one complaint.
Speaker 2:So I'll tell you why I didn't say traffic. Okay, I retired December 2019. I'm not in the traffic, so it's not forefront, it's not, but I'm still traumatized by what the government put me through with my business. That's why. I understand, I'm not out there every day, but traffic is horrible. Yeah it is, and it's worse than 2019. When I got off the road it is, it's bad, yeah, all right now.
Speaker 1:This is kind of a two-part question, but I know you're you're tired and you don't have to go out and do as much stuff. If somebody wanted to visit maryland that was that was here listening to this broadcast where would you recommend they go? I know you haven't been to a whole lot of places because you don't really have to, but what would you recommend they would go and visit first. If they were visiting your area in Maryland for the first time, where would they go?
Speaker 2:I'm relatively close to DC. Okay, so if you visit Maryland, just you can consider yourself visiting DC. Dc has a lot of museums and the museums are not far from each other. That person could do a museum day, literally just museum hop one museum to the ton of museums down there.
Speaker 1:No-transcript definitely that makes sense. Are you a fan of the crab case? This is like the main food. I'm the cuisine out there. They they are fierce about these crab case. Are you a fan of the crab case or not?
Speaker 2:I don't eat shellfish.
Speaker 1:You don't eat shellfish. I'll say that as a no. Yes, that's okay, that's okay, totally fine, all right. So in your, in your words, and something that I've I've done some teachings on it and I'm sure there's some podcasts on it, somewhere on apple podcast. But what's your? Uh, how do you contrast relationship and religion? I see in some of your work you kind of you kind of get into that a little bit, so it kind of caught my attention. How would you, in your own words, how would you contrast relationship versus religion?
Speaker 2:Good question, Ah great. So let me deal with religion first. Religion is church.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Religion is practices, sacrilegious practices. Religion is you do it because it's churchy. Religion is your parents raise you in the church and you just keep going to church because that's what you know. Relationship is when you give your life to the Lord, when you live according to his word, when you're talking to him in prayer, you know you're talking to a God that connects with you. Relationship is where you live a life in an effort to be obedient to him and you listen to him. Religion is you go to church, you hear the word, you may get excited about it, but when you walk out the door it's life again. That's behind you is another life. Yeah, that's the difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love the conviction of your words. There's so many people who, even though they may hear an episode of our show, especially the inspiration station and the inspirational teaching, the thing that we do they always take away from well, not always, but in a lot of cases they take away from it what you said on the religious side. They kind of, like you know, they make it kind of match their religious views as opposed to taking it for what it is and how it was presented. And it's so easy to do that because people are creatures of habit. We like things the way that they are. We don't like things to get changed or shaken up. Too much Relationship shakes things up.
Speaker 1:If you ever had one with somebody and it was a really deep and strong, abiding relationship, you know that every day comes with compromise. I don't keep a personal relationship or a business relationship. It comes with compromises, it comes with changes. It doesn't stay the same. It evolves, it grows, it begins to become a living, breathing organism. But religion doesn't have to be that, can be exactly the way it is. You can smother it to a stage the same, you can extend its growth. It never has to be anything more than that and that's the limiting quality of religion. So I like how you answered that Awesome. Now I think you worked as a researcher for the USDA right.
Speaker 2:I worked at USDA for 20 years.
Speaker 1:yes, Okay, talk to me about that role. I mean in light, if you can speak to this in light of what we're seeing now with what's happening to food and what's happening to food and its ingredients and what's being added and things like that why did you take that role, why did you get involved with that and what did you learn from the experience for the USDA?
Speaker 2:So USDA is a huge. Us Department of Agriculture is USDA, just in case someone doesn't know what it stands for Very, very big agency, government agency and a lot of departments to the agency. So you have FDA, which is part of USDA Food and Distribution Agency. I believe it's called.
Speaker 2:They also monitor quality of food. Where I worked, I worked at USDA as a social science researcher, so I didn't deal with food and what right. So I did research on I'm a researcher by training on participation rates in the different programs that we offer and how it impacts children's wellbeing and you know things like that. And modernizing the program, access to the program, especially for the elderly. Wow, yeah, that's that, that was my role. All right, what was, what was your that was my role, all right.
Speaker 1:What was your hope? I mean, I'm sure you got to that assignment for a reason. What were you hoping to accomplish by having that role? What did you learn in the aftermath?
Speaker 2:My wow, this question Okay. So genuinely, as a researcher, I wanted to see the findings of the studies that I engaged in actually used Interesting. So researchers are always investigating a problem. 99% of the time, a research project is looking at an issue, not a solution. You're trying to find the solution by doing the research. So, as a researcher and I do the research or I oversee the research, which is mostly what I did write up the report. My hope is that the government will take the findings and use it, apply it. That never happened.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you why. The whole government and yeah, they can't do anything to me, I'm done, retired so the own government put so many steps in the way OMB process that would take forever, for example, sampling and all of that that by the time the research project is done, the issue that you're studying is no longer an issue. A new issue has emerged. So you go through all of that, write the report and the report is amazing is no longer an issue. A new issue has emerged. So you go through all of that, write the report and the report is irrelevant.
Speaker 2:So you're essentially researching to perpetuity For the most part. Wow, it happened. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happened. So, in answer to your question, what would I want to see? I would want to see every result, every research project, the results that yield from a research project get looked at and used to the max and some of those roadblocks, some of those speed bumps that are in the way that delay a project.
Speaker 2:A project that could be done in 18 months may take four to two months because of the process that you have to go through Very political, and so by the time you're done, three years, four years later, the government has moved on. A different issue has arrived.
Speaker 1:Wow, I want you to take some time to just think about this a little bit. I know you didn't work with food specifically, but just because of your time there, the obvious reason that you gained through working in what you saw was a result some of the politics and red tape and such. How does that affect the way you look at food and how you look at the impact on the community? That definitely comes from well, hopefully comes from the research of some sort and just the USDA as a whole. Has it changed the way you view the world around you?
Speaker 2:No, um, no, okay. Before I went to usda, I worked, uh, 11 years with homeless families okay, mainly single women with children. So I am familiar with the dynamics of poverty. And poverty is not a lack of money, it's not people see. Most people see poverty. If you give them money, if you give them resources, they won't be poor anymore. Wrong, poverty is a mindset.
Speaker 1:Very good.
Speaker 2:Poverty is a mindset. This person is poor. Take them off the street, put them in a mansion. I wouldn't change it. Give them a whole bunch of money with no change in their mindset and personal life skills and see what happens. They'll be poor in no time again. With that lack of understanding, you have efforts being made by the government to incentivize people to eat healthy. For example, you can't incentivize a person to eat fruits and vegetables when they love chips and soda. They need to know why it's important, because when you remove the incentives, they go back to chips and soda. The incentives they go back to chips and soda. So it just, it just make me look at, think again at how institutions like USDA and food and nutrition service can understand the population better, to reach them in a way that would foster lasting behavior change or lasting nutritional changes, without throwing money, throwing adding money to their EBT card because they bought fruits and vegetables. I remember that initiative and it won't work. It can't work that's.
Speaker 1:That's distressing, but I'm glad you were able to be there to see it so you can talk about it. So I hope you have more opportunities to do so that's. I think it's pretty interesting. What would you be doing if you were an author in books and training leaders?
Speaker 2:leaders Well being retired. If I wasn't doing what I'm doing now writing and training I probably would be doing my business, precise research I probably would have gone back to it.
Speaker 1:Refresh us again on the details of what precise research. What would that be looking like? What would the focus be the target?
Speaker 2:be for that kind of work. I would be writing grant proposals for any entity that's looking for a grant writer. I'd be doing training on how to do grant writing. I would be doing evaluation of programs that are funded by the government, which is what Precise predominantly did. So a local city or a school district or a nonprofit organization may get 1.5 million, 2 million, 3 million, 500,000, whatever from a funder, be it the government or not. The funder wants them to evaluate their program, to report on how, to the degree that they met the program's goals and objectives. That's where I come in. So I would do the data collection, I'll do the data analysis, I'll do the write-up for them and report it.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. No offense to any of my friends listening, but I know a lot of folks that think that they have it's almost like a given that they should write a book because of their story. How did you know that it was the right move for you? The author and Bruce.
Speaker 2:I started writing long before I retired. I didn't start after I retired. My first book came out in 2009. And I always struggle with which one was first. But I know that one book came out while I was doing Bridges, because of my experience in Bridges, what I saw with the churches. And then another book, the High Call of Forgiveness, came out, also based on my experience. So I will never write a story, a book, about my life.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not. Yeah, Is there a reason why you feel that way that you can share?
Speaker 2:There are tons of lives around. Why are you going to read a book about my life? What's so different about my life? I mean, my life is.
Speaker 1:Come on now. There is something different about your life than other people. You're unique.
Speaker 2:If I wouldn't buy the book I. There is something different about Cheryl Light and other people. You're unique.
Speaker 1:If I wouldn't buy the book, I'm not going to write it. Okay, yeah, you see what I'm saying. If I wouldn't buy the book?
Speaker 2:That's two different things and you know it, come on. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Thank you. You're unique and you got something of value, even if you don't see it yourself.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm saying thank you.
Speaker 1:Your story is incredible.
Speaker 2:All right, thank you so much, but I write non-fictions because they teach principles. Yeah, I don't write fictions. I write non-fictions because they teach. They have a substance, life-changing substance. I believe that's yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what would you say? I mean you wrote many books on different topics. I think I would probably say that most of them kind of lean toward training leaders and developing spiritual growth in people, which I'm totally on board with. We're going to get to one of those books before we close out today. But what would you say if you could encapsulate it is an important tool or understanding from all your books that you would say people should read it because of this tool or understanding? What would you say that tool is? Or understanding is?
Speaker 2:You mean which book it is?
Speaker 1:I mean just the overall theme of your books or something you think people should understand from reading your books. If you would recommend those, what would the understanding be? Would you say?
Speaker 2:well, I suppose uh, without talking about a specific topic covered in the books, when you read my books, be prepared to be challenged and inspired. I believe I challenge the readers to go beyond where they are, be it about your relationship with God, be it about leadership, be it about doubt, depression, fear, failure, which is some of the things I write about. I challenge folks to look at themselves and then I inspire. So those two, those we prepare to be challenged and inspired, well, I like that, that's.
Speaker 1:That's something I think we all need, that they feel like people don't realize that until you're already in the midst of something, and then, of course, it's a problem. Uh, but if you could recommend a book that's not one of you written, this is a book that you actually would buy what book would you recommend?
Speaker 2:Beyond the Veil by Alice Smith.
Speaker 1:Beyond the Veil by Alice Smith.
Speaker 2:Beyond the Veil. It's a book about prayer, and it's a book that lets the reader know that there is depth to prayer, that there is meaning to prayer and that prayer does take us into a deeper relationship with the Lord. You talked about religion and relationship earlier. Prayer will get you beyond the veil, will get you beyond religion, and if you just let me give you another one that I two more coming. My Atmosphere is Highest by Oswald Chambers.
Speaker 1:I'm familiar with that one, okay.
Speaker 2:Another one is Silencing the Enemy by Robert Gay. Silencing the Enemy, that's a powerful book. Easy read listen Powerful book.
Speaker 1:That sounds familiar.
Speaker 2:Yes, robert Gay, powerful book.
Speaker 1:I loved it. I loved that More insight into you. What's your favorite food? I know it's not a proud case, we only established that. So what's your favorite food?
Speaker 2:My favorite dinner dish. Is that what you're asking, sure?
Speaker 1:I'm not asking about your favorite food at this point, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:A nice big steamed fish.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:With the head on.
Speaker 1:Sound like my mama.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, you can leave the eyes in it, I'm not scared. The tail on the head, on everything, just give me the fish. Steamed with good gravy and some vegetables.
Speaker 1:Wait till my mother sees this episode. She's going to love it. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. We got a funny story. It wasn't funny to my wife, it was funny to the rest of us. My mom had to go check this New in our marriage. We weren't married a year yet. Mom had to go check one of the pots that were on the stove simmering over. My wife takes a little pot and all these fish jump out with their eyes. Yeah, my wife almost out of her mind.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I have friends that won't even go near a fish with the head on. Give me the head.
Speaker 1:I'll take the head.
Speaker 1:You didn't know. That's how. That's how it was, but that's definitely a standard in my mom's household. That's funny, okay. So this is me. This could just be me. Personally, I think it's probably you, or anybody, who does the kind of thing that you and I aspire to do. But in seeking to inspire change in people and encourage spiritual growth, it often comes with a cost to do that. What would you say is the biggest challenge you've personally experienced by trying to inspire change and encourage spiritual growth and kind of develop this in other people? What would have been the biggest challenge for you?
Speaker 2:I'd really say my biggest challenge is making sure I take care of me.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the the demand sometimes is is great to demand Honestly, sometimes it's great. So I have to make sure that I can say no sometimes and I can say, wait, I'll get back to you. Yeah, that that's the challenge I want to pour into people, but I have to take care of me also.
Speaker 1:That's important, that's an important challenge and I think people don't obviously don't read the Bible, but a lot of people just expect that because you do this and you may do it very well and you have this propensity to reach people on this level, that you're open for business 24 hours a day, I'm like, yeah, that's not really how it works, jesus. If you look at it having counted it myself, I'm pretty sure it's at least in the 30s where Jesus went away to a faraway place to pray.
Speaker 2:All the time.
Speaker 1:Because the masses of people were coming to him almost constantly. He couldn't even go anywhere without running into somebody who had a request of him. And if you notice he did it routinely.
Speaker 2:after he ministered to a crowd, he had to go refill.
Speaker 1:That's an example, that's a role model for me, and I didn't always catch that. So I was doing coaching and counseling. I didn't realize like, wow, why am I feeling like I'm burnt out, like I want to run away from everybody and never come back?
Speaker 2:Why do I feel?
Speaker 1:like this. It's because I wasn't taking the time to learn how to rest, and this is probably the greatest season of my life for rest, so I love that answer. I really do. I saw some themes in some of your books on the theme of forgiveness. Tell me why the message of forgiveness is so strong for you personally? Why is that so relevant for you?
Speaker 2:Well, I went through my own demand to forgive. That's how the first edition of the book came about and I rewrote it, expanded on it, in 2021. But some things you can speak on and teach about a whole lot better, more effectively, when you've gone through it and as I went through that season of my life.
Speaker 2:The Lord taught me many, many truths about what forgiveness looks like His way, because we have a version of forgiveness, but he has a different version and His version of forgiveness is based on the Word of God. So I have been teaching and preaching on forgiveness since the mid-90s. It's been a while, resulting in the book and workbook and devotional and Bible studies. Yeah, so it's fundamental to forgive. Number one it's a mandate by the Father. Mandate means command. It's not a question. It's not a question. It's not a suggestion. It's an order and the book of the Bible. It's clear that if we don't obey this mandate, there are consequences.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so somebody was listening today. I know several people who just could potentially apply to if they were actually watching and listening, but they have having a struggle with forgiving somebody that's done them an egregious wrong. How would you encourage them if they were face to face with you, or they were watching and listening to the replay of this show all life? How would you encourage them beyond just saying you know what it's the word of god, you got to do it, or else you know? How would you encourage them to walk and forgive what? Would you share? A personal story, an anecdote? How would you encourage them to embrace?
Speaker 2:forgiveness. I I definitely would let them know that hurt is real. Hurt is real and theurt is real and the hurt is acknowledged. And forgiving that person seems super hard, maybe even for some people, impossible, but I would encourage them that they can do it. Though it looks so impossible, they can do it. I also would try to open their eyes for them to see that when they forgive, they forgiveness is not for the person who hurt you. Forgiveness is for the person who has been hurt. So you're doing yourself a favor when you forgive.
Speaker 1:Very good. I love that. That's incredible. I love that. We should get that locked down on paper. That's great. So tell me how you got the concept for leaders like giraffes?
Speaker 2:All right, so remember we were talking about bridges. One of the events that I sponsor for bridges is a conference every year and at this conference I had a lot of workshops. I would have a leadership track, parenting track, worship track, different tracks, so in the track you have multiple workshops and I had a workshop in the leadership track that was blank, no topic, just a space blank. I couldn't find a person to do that session.
Speaker 2:It's my conference, I coordinated. So I don't teach or do anything at the conference because I'm running up and down, but I couldn't find anyone that session. It's my conference, I coordinate it. So I don't teach or do anything at the conference because I'm running up and down but I couldn't find anyone that year. So I say, oh, against my will, I'm going to have to do this session. And in preparing I had very little time, honestly, because I'm busy doing the conference planning. Lord, what can I talk about? And out of the blue, I never thought about this concept before, never heard it, never. The giraffe did not catch my attention before then and I heard in my spirit leaders are like giraffes. And as I put the the slides together for the workshop, I, I, there was so much information. I said this is going to be a book one day. This was way back in, maybe 2011 or oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:It was a long time ago. I said this this is going to be a book one day. And there it was. The time came and I wrote the book.
Speaker 1:That is amazing. That's amazing. So I don't want you to get too much into the book, but tell me one interesting fact about giraffes that you think relates to leadership.
Speaker 2:OK, let me talk about their tongue. Their tongue is huge, their tongue is very long, their tongue is coated with a thick covering and it's also dark, because their tongue is mostly outside of their mouth and they're in the wild, so their tongue is exposed to the sun a lot. So they're made built by God to weather the weather. One Leaders are uniquely built to weather the weather and they use their tongue like hands. The weather and they use their tongue like hands. So they eat from the acacia tree predominantly, which is also full of thorns, and if there are luscious leaves behind a branch that is thorny, the giraffe knows how to use its tongue like a hand and go around the thorns.
Speaker 1:That's incredible.
Speaker 2:To wrap around those leaves and strip it off of the branch for their nourishment. So for leaders, obstacles don't stop them. They find a way to work around the thorns. They find a way to work around the obstacles, and that's good.
Speaker 1:That's not the one I was thinking about, so that's even better.
Speaker 2:You were talking about their height. You were thinking about their height, weren't you?
Speaker 1:About their neck and their blood flow. That's where I was at, but okay, oh okay. But that's even better than what I was thinking. Okay, I love this. I love this, All right. So we talked about this in pre-production, but I want to ask it again on the air what would you advise your younger self if you had the opportunity today to give them some advice? Kind of go back in time a bit to younger Rosemary. What would you tell her to do or not?
Speaker 2:do. Actually, we didn't talk about this, we didn't.
Speaker 1:That's the next question.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:Man, what age?
Speaker 2:am I 16.? Oh, 16. Okay, oh, okay. Okay, don't go to Brock University. Nothing is wrong with Brock University. It's a beautiful campus and if I had friends there, I would have stayed there. Go to a university because you're so introverted introverted, rosemary, at 16. You don't blend in very well. You are a nerd. So go to a campus where you have friends, so you'll be at home.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make this tougher for you. I like that. Okay, let's try. Let's try.
Speaker 2:21 year old okay, 21 what do you want? To say to her 21, okay, that's a harder one.
Speaker 1:I told you we do this. I told you that's what we do on this show. We do this. This happens. I warned you.
Speaker 2:It's not too soon. It's not too soon to start saving for retirement the minute you start working.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 2:Start saving for retirement.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good, Don't wait until you get your dream job yeah. Don't wait that long. Well, that's good. Don't wait until you get your dream job. Yeah, don't wait that long, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that Yep 21 is not too soon. It seems like it's too soon, but it's not.
Speaker 1:Well, that's sage advice. So we did discuss this in our pre-prediction meeting. What's a magical goal that you would like to reach within the next five years?
Speaker 2:we did talk about that, you know I would love for the the giraffe leadership framework that I've developed from the book leaders are like giraffes become widely known um in the us, canada and and wherever else that it is in demand for training in the religious sector as well as the business community. And my book, my Bible study, on the high call of forgiveness. If a church is looking for a woman's group, a church is looking for teaching materials on forgiveness. I want the high call of forgiveness to be the first thing that comes to their mind.
Speaker 1:I love this. I only have two more questions for you. We'll trail from that last response. Then you talked a lot about doing women's ministry and how much that's a big part of your heart. What's your ultimate hope for the women that you minister to in your council, and where did that hope come from?
Speaker 2:The emotional wholeness People are broken.
Speaker 2:People are scarred, People are carrying baggages, Right in the church, Right in the pews, May I say, right in the pulpit, Without question you can say that yes, and I see it and I hear it and oh yes, they're marked by oh yeah. So emotional wholeness, not just healing, because you may heal one condition, but something else remains when you are made whole, everything is made new. So the aim is wholeness, wholeness to your whole inner self, their entire inner self, and that's where their closer look at me could come in. I have therapeutic cards and self-awareness, self-worth, self-care and a workbook and I do a retreat on that as well. But yeah, administering to women is to women find themselves. Women internalize things. Women are very heavily emotional beings, so we carry things. That's why we have a womb. We have a womb whether we have a child in it or not, or whether we have given birth physically or not. We carry things. Women have phenomenal memories and remember the good, the bad and the indifferent. That's why we are so heavy now. Yeah, Emotional.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all of that, that's amazing. I'm going to take my mic off and give you my mic so you can go ahead and keep on preaching. We're getting ready to happen just now. But one more question. Then I'll let you go talk to people for a little bit, but this is a big thing for me, no-transcript. What would you speak to? Somebody who is watching or listening that doesn't have a handle on personal disciplines yet? How would you encourage them and what value do you place on it yourself? That's such a hard question.
Speaker 2:The value I place on it myself is huge, especially now. I mean, I'm not an end-of-one's clock. I can get up when I want, I can set my own schedule. So the opportunity is there to establish a routine and guard it, and so my personal discipline is I get up I?
Speaker 2:have my devotion. It's unhurried, I don't rush it. I pray and whatever I do in my devotion, then I go downstairs and I work out, then I shower, then my day starts. So it may not start till about 1130. It may not start till 10 o'clock and I'm not rushing because I don't owe you anything, for the person who has a job to go to you still can develop something, because that personal discipline, that time for you with what matters, is definitely important and it doesn't have to be hours long Sometime. That's routine, that's your space, your time, your way of doing it, that feeds you, that builds you up, that connects you to the source that you need the strength from. That's actually very much more important than us rushing into the day to do whatever we need to do. We've got to fuel ourselves first before starting that day.
Speaker 1:That's poignant. I loved it. I loved that. I loved that. This has been a fantastic conversation. I'm so grateful you came on with us and shared so much about you. I hope everybody was listening got something out of it. If you haven't listen to it again, I think you'll find some real good nuggets there for yourself as well. If you don't mind, dr Donna Schultz, tell everybody where they can find you and your work.
Speaker 2:My website is booksbyrosemarycom. That's booksbyrosemary. Rosemary ends with I E, not Ycom and uh, facebook and Instagram is booksbyrosemary or booksbyrosemary downer, so usually if you do books by Rosemary, you can find me there. All my books are on my website, as well as all my books are on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. If you don't mind, just stay on a few minutes afterwards. I want to just share one thing with you after we close out, but thank you again for all those who are listening and watching one-on-one with Mr Yu and Dr Downer. Appreciate the support. Please like, share, subscribe on our YouTube channel youtubecom. They call me Mr Yu. Please hit the subscribe button, of course, if you don't mind. Doctor, in the comment section on the YouTube channel where this episode is, I want you to drop all of your handles there where they can find your books. That'd be really helpful if you don't mind doing that for us. That way, anybody who's watching and listening and want to check out some of your books, like Leaders of Light drafts and such, I can find it there in those in those areas in the comment section. But thanks again for listening everybody. We enjoyed this time and hope you enjoyed it too.
