One On One with Mista Yu: Faith Meets Crisis: Fight For The Prodigal (Debra McNinch)

Debra McNinch shares her journey from a small-town Kansas upbringing to founding Battle Cry Moms, a prayer movement supporting mothers of prodigal children that now includes over 1,200 participants worldwide.

• Growing up in a single-parent household in the 1970s and experiencing poverty shaped Deborah's perspective on family and faith
• The absence of a father figure created challenges in understanding God as Father and initially in her marriage relationship
• Her life changed dramatically when her oldest child came out as transgender, forcing her to navigate between rejection and affirmation
• Battle Cry Prayer Movement emerged from her personal struggle to find a balanced approach to loving her child while maintaining her faith convictions
• The five-step Battle Plan provides practical guidance: focusing on Scripture, worship, consistent prayer, declaring God's promises, and finding community
• Parents facing similar challenges are encouraged to find supportive communities rather than facing their struggles alone
• Photography, particularly of birds, serves as both a creative outlet and ministry opportunity for Deborah

If you're struggling with a prodigal child, remember Deborah's motto: "No one fights alone." Connect with her at debramcninch.com or find her book "Battle Cry: Love Goes to War" on her website or Amazon.

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Chapters

• 0:57 Introducing Deborah McNinch
• 6:46 Growing Up with Limited Resources
• 15:03 Navigating Marriage and Faith
• 22:31 The Birth of Battle Cry Moms
• 29:49 The Five-Step Battle Plan
• 34:15 Photography and Passion Projects

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:38

welcome back to one-on-one with mr you. Of course I'm your host, mr you in studio today. Deborah mcninch, founder of the battle cry prayer movement. Deborah, how are you today? One-on-one with Mr U? Of course I'm your host, mr U In studio today. Debra McNinch, founder of the Battle Cry Prayer Movement. Debra, how are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:50

I'm great. How are you today?

Speaker 1: 0:52

Not too shabby. It could be better, but it's really good though. Glad to have you in the house today. We had a fantastic pre-interview chat. I'm really excited about our viewers and listeners hearing a lot more of your stories, so let's get into it. As customary, all I know, our guests always ask them about their upbringing and childhood. Give us a picture of where you come from and what your life was like back then, and then we'll fast forward to what it's like now. Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yes, so I was born in a small town in South Central Kansas, so I'm a little Midwest girl. Small town in South Central Kansas, so I'm a little Midwest girl. We're known for Burger Station and Bluegrass in my town and I'm super proud. I spent my whole life trying to get out of that little town and now that I'm older I'm kind of spending the rest of it trying to get back. So it's funny how you kind of miss it. I don't know there's times I really miss living in my little hometown, but it was a great upbringing. I had a great life. I don't know there's times I really miss living in my little hometown, but it was a great upbringing. I had a great life. I came from a single mom household. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and it wasn't cool at that time to be a single mom. So my mom was a single mom before it was the end thing to do and so we were kind of poor. We didn't have a lot of things kind of poor kind of poor.

Speaker 2: 2:06

We didn't have a lot of things in this world. But, um, you know, I knew I didn't have a lot of things, but I didn't.

Speaker 2: 2:12

At the same time, I knew that my mom loved me and I had everything I needed, and so, um, you know, I had a great life I I with just a good, solid foundation. My mama made sure we got on that church bus and learned about Jesus. I couldn't have asked for a better upbringing. Overall, we all have things. I didn't have a dad growing up. I kind of missed that. There were things I missed about that. There were always days at school that was bring your father to school day, and you know, I didn't have those kinds of days. I didn't have grandparents. They had all passed away before I was born, and so I really I had a mother and a brother and a sister, and that was pretty much the extent of my family, and so I always dreamed of having a big, extended family.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Okay, no, I like that. One thing I want to ask you about today, because I know that anytime a parent isn't in a household, of course you're going to be an impact, but what it feels like to me, could you be my circle of influence? But from where I sit, I rarely ever hear the daughter's side of not having a father. I hear the son's side all the time. I never hear the daughter's side. Tell me what you think the impact was for you being a daughter, not having a father in the household.

Speaker 2: 3:36

Oh, it was huge and I still probably struggle today with that not needing to be enough. You know, I think a little girl wants a dad and wants that protector and I didn't have that and I had a very strong, independent mom that you know raised me to not need a man. You know I joke about that a lot. You know she raised us to really be strong and independent and you know, if something needed fixed, she fixed it and so I grew up just kind of being very independent like that and so that probably really transferred over to me getting married in my twenties and I think there was probably a struggle.

Speaker 2: 4:15

We've been married 33 years now, but probably the first, you know, 10 years, if not more. There was probably really a struggle with me allowing my husband to be, you know, the head, if not more. There was probably really a struggle with me allowing my husband to be, you know, the head of the house as God ordained, just because of my upbringing and always thinking that I needed to always make sure that I was solid and strong instead of letting him lead, because I never had that as a role model growing up. And then that also kind of always has transferred over to my relationship with God. Because, you know, some people can think of God the father, and it's such a beautiful imagery that they have.

Speaker 2: 4:53

But I don't have that, because in my world a father leaves and leaves his family to be hungry and maybe without electricity and without needs that you have and no way to pay for things. And you know, if the car breaks down, maybe you're not going to eat, and so you know those types of things. When I think of a father, I think of the hurt side of it, and so sometimes it's really hard for me to think of a loving father because I didn't have one, and so I know that it still affects me to this day.

Speaker 1: 5:22

I know that it still affects me to this day. I wish I can take some time to go into that from my standpoint, because I had the same situation and I struggled to understand the whole God, the father concept in real terms because you know, I had a father that didn't want me around, so that's like we're always in time to get away from me.

Speaker 2: 5:44

Yeah, it's really hard. Yeah, it's hard To get away from me. Yeah, it's really hard.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Yeah, it is hard. I want to kind of stay on this a little bit, because one thing you mentioned was about you allowing your husband to lead. For those that may not understand that, maybe they watch a lot of television and movies and maybe they take the excuse from the media Explain to them in a way that you think I mean dumb and down, but you think you need to yeah, but speak to what that means. Will you still maintain your strength and your individuality, but you still respect your husband in the office that he stands in? Break the dialogue if you don't mind sharing a little bit about that please.

Speaker 2: 6:22

Sure I would love to. You know we have a Christian family in our home, and so we try to do things as the Bible orders it to do that. And you know God has made the family a unit and he set before us the standards and how we are to live. And you know God is always the first, and then your husband, and then your husband is the one that takes care of your wife and the family. And you know we have made that word submit in our culture like a dirty ugly word to think it's a negative thing, but really it's a beautiful thing that you know I submit my life to him to be able to and let him lead me.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Now, what does that mean? That doesn't mean he tells me what to do, because he knows better than that, you know. It doesn't mean that. You know he's got me locked in the closet somewhere, but you know what it means is that we make decisions together. It means that we are a strong unit and we make decisions together. But he, as the leader of the home, I know that he's praying and asking the Lord to lead him, and so, therefore, I can rest in the fact that God is going to answer him and tell him what to do for our family.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Right, it totally makes sense. You told me during our community chat there were four things that are your favorite things in the whole world, and I kind of called you out because there were four things in there and one thing was missing the same person you're talking about right now, your husband. He wasn't in your four favorite things.

Speaker 2: 7:50

So I had to call you out about that. He is. He's not in my. My four favorite things are very easy. It's Jesus, coffee, you know, glitter and cupcakes, and so your husband should have been inside there somewhere and cupcakes.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Your husband should have been inside there somewhere.

Speaker 2: 8:06

I'll do five favorite things he's my favorite thing. That's a given. It's a given that he's my favorite thing. That's a given. I saved that. See how that went.

Speaker 1: 8:18

Hope he's not listening right now.

Speaker 2: 8:20

He's not.

Speaker 1: 8:21

That's not a true saying. I love it though. We talked yeah, we talked a lot about a lot of things, and you mentioned earlier about, you know, being in poverty. But so your mindset was pretty good because you you had, you felt like you had what you needed and you never made it feel as though you didn't have it. But then we talked a little bit about the the poverty mindset in your adulthood, and I'd love to get into that a little bit more, because I think we talked a little bit about the poverty mindset in your adulthood and I'd love to get into that a little bit more, because I think we talked a little bit about some hoarding and some stockpiling, kind of going on. You're smiling and laughing now.

Speaker 2: 8:53

Exactly A little bit, or look behind me. Yeah, you know, definitely, when you, when you grow up with a lack, you know you make yourself a promise or at least I did that when I, you know, get to be an adult, I will never blah, blah, blah then enter, you know, whatever it is, you're never going to do. And you know, when you grow up without a lot of stuff, when you are allowed to get stuff and you have the money to get stuff, it's easy to get stuff and have stuff. And so, you know I like to just like clothes. I only had a handful of clothes growing up and so now, if you would look in my closet, you know I'm like, wow, I have way too many clothes. This is, you know, definitely things I need to address. And you know, I know we talked about even like things like if my car breaks down. Today, you know, I still panic. I have money to fix my car. Praise God, we have money. If my car breaks down, I can fix the car.

Speaker 2: 9:51

But in my mind I still go back to that little girl that if my mom's car broke down, you know that may mean that we're only eating, you know, bread or whatever. You know, with sandwiches forever, and so she did what she could and she did a great job of always taking care of us, but there just wasn't a lot of extra stuff. So that poverty mindset is hard to get rid of. Because, therefore, I feel like I should always have a cabinet full of food just in case. I should always keep three months worth of food just in case. You know, I should always keep, you know, three months worth of food in my house just in case. And that all stems back to not having stuff like that as a kid and even like the fun stuff you know, just junk food and whatnot. You know, nobody needs that kind of stuff, but I didn't have a lot of that growing up and you know, now I still can't pass like a display of ding-dongs without being like I'm going to need to buy a box, because that was like Ding-dongs.

Speaker 1: 10:47

I never heard that in years. I know Are we still doing that.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Well, you know, not very often, but once in a while I still, like you know, I crave a good ding-dong, because growing up, you know, we had food stamps and I only would get those. Like, we had a little Wonder Bread store so we could only go get like the old ones. We never got the new ones, you know, but we could go get the day old ones and eat those. You know if, if mom got food stamps or whatever, and so those were just treat things for me, and so to this day they still make me smile, because I remember how much joy a ding-dong would have brought me back when I was eight.

Speaker 1: 11:27

Oh yeah, I totally get that. I thought they were extinct. I haven't seen those in years.

Speaker 2: 11:32

I know it.

Speaker 1: 11:34

I go back in time. I had Twinkies. And then I go back in time, yes, I'm like, oh, my God Wow. They're not good anymore.

Speaker 2: 11:39

Remember, they used to be wrapped in foil. They had little foil. No, they don't do that anymore. It's not as good.

Speaker 1: 11:50

You kind of thought? They were really special and really taking care of being full right. Yes, the joke was on us though, wasn't it?

Speaker 2: 11:54

Yes, it was.

Speaker 1: 11:55

But so, in regards to the whole stockpiling and hoarding thing, I've seen it played out in very, very negative, harmful ways. But how does your husband and family deal with that mindset and make that a two part question how did your husband and family deal with that mindset and how had that impact how you raised the kiddos?

Speaker 2: 12:17

Yeah. So my husband would probably laugh at me if he was sitting here beside me and you were asking him. He'd be like, yeah, she's a hoarder. No, he wouldn't say that, I'm just kidding. He would say, though, that definitely he doesn't probably agree with me on as much food and things as I keep in the house, because he's more of the mindset, you know God's always going to take care of us and it's all going to be good, and I believe that to be fine. But I also think God brings us to prepare, and so we probably don't see eye to eye on on some of that stuff. But I think he knows he grew up very poor also, and so you know he had a whole different experience, but he grew up very poor as well, you know, and so we. It's funny because we've never raised our kids. You know some people that grow up very poor and then end up having a good living, end up like spoiling their children and giving them everything that really wasn't our, our case of what we did, um, we made our kids.

Speaker 2: 13:16

They worked, you know, from the time they turned 14, they're like it's time to get a job and we taught them the value of money and the value of hard work and they never.

Speaker 2: 13:23

They're like it's time to get a job and we taught them the value of money and the value of hard work and they never. They never got things like other kids did. You know they. We never gave them new cars, we never did this. We never did that. You know. We tried to teach them that. You know life is.

Speaker 2: 13:37

You know, if I give you something you know as as a present or as as just something you could use, that means that I'm giving up or somebody else is giving up something at the same time, because there's only so much money, and so I want you to understand what a sacrifice is this thing. Whatever it is, is for you to get, and so it's always something to be thankful and I think that's just how we raise them was to be thankful and to not need a lot of stuff. And none of my children it's really funny because none of them now they're all very simple, like minimalist. They don't like a lot of stuff, they don't like, you know, a bunch of knickknacks sitting around and you know all of that kind of stuff, and so definitely they're probably kind of the opposite of me and just want to be able. I think it's that generation too, though they want to be able to just get in their car and and not have a house with things. They want to be able to go places and have experiences.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. All right, let's move on. So over 1,200 moms from around the world are a part of this. What is Battle Cry Moms, and how did it begin?

Speaker 2: 14:42

Yes, and so Battle Cry Moms is an amazing group of moms that come together to pray for their prodigal children, and it was founded about seven years ago. My story started when my oldest child called and said mom, I'm transgender, and at the time I didn't know what that meant. Honestly, I really didn't even know what it meant and I really didn't know how my life was going to change and how my family was going to change because of that announcement. And so in the days and the weeks and the months that followed that, you know, I had to figure out my family has changed and what am I going to do and what does my life look like now? What used to be a really close, tight-knit family now was going to be at a place where they didn't talk and nobody communicated, and it really broke our family apart, didn't talk and nobody communicated, and it really broke our family apart. And so I had to learn really quickly just how to survive, and I always kind of like to say that it felt like, you know, I kind of had this Malibu Barbie dream house I had built on the on the beach, and I was just sitting there watching the waves, you know, ready for the grandkids to roll in. I didn't realize that there was something, this tsunami wave on the horizon, getting ready to come in and just knock my house off its foundation. And so when that wave came, I had to just decide is my house built on the rock of Jesus Christ or is it on shifting sand? And what does that look like now? And so am I going to be okay, am I going to go on, or is this going to bury me? And I had to decide that my rock is on Jesus and that, no matter what is happening to me or my family, that he was still in control, he was still on the throne and that he was going to somehow take all of this ashes of sadness and pain that we had and make something beautiful out of it. And that's what he has done.

Speaker 2: 16:37

I started about four years ago. I started Battle Cry Moms, and it's a site for moms that have prodigal children. It doesn't matter what your prodigal looks like. Maybe they are an alcoholic, or maybe they have just wandered from the faith, maybe they simply don't believe, maybe they're LGBTQ. Whatever the case is, there's all kinds of different prodigals. We come together and we pray and believe that our kids are going to come back into the saving grace of Jesus Christ and be delivered from whatever is holding them back, and they're going to start a relationship with the Lord.

Speaker 1: 17:54

I love it. I love it. You talked a lot and this is something that hopefully you're still open to discuss it but in our pre-interview chat you talked about the role of the church in this journey you've been on with Battle Cry. I personally, my wife and I, we've done together. We've been in ministry for nearly 30 years now and we've seen a lot of things that people now in today's vernacular called church hurt.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Right.

Speaker 1: 18:20

Tell us how the church helped you or hurt or both in this particular journey.

Speaker 2: 18:26

Yeah. So at the very beginning I realized that I was now loving somebody that the church told me I was supposed to hate. And so, as the days and the weeks and the months were unfolding, I realized there were two doors in the church. Door number one, over here, said you know that this is a sin and that you should turn your child out. You should not talk to them, you know they're going to hell the whole thing, you know. And so that was door number one that was presented to me. And door number two, over here, was more of an affirming stance that said oh no, there's nothing wrong with what they're doing, bring them in. God loves everybody. He doesn't care what they are, you know, just, let's just bring them in and let them be who they want to be.

Speaker 2: 19:16

And I found myself kind of going between these two camps. Going, you know, I don't know if the theology of either camp is correct and I don't think I fit in either camp. Because on door number one, if we honestly think that this is a sin and these kids are going to hell and all of this nonsense, then why are we not having prayer meetings? How come? I had never been to a church that dedicated a whole service to praying for prodigal children. I had never seen it and I wasn't hearing it. And so why is the church condemning them to hell but not, on their knees, praying them back? You know, and so you know.

Speaker 2: 19:59

And then, over here, if we're going to affirm every single thing that doesn't line up with the word of God and just say, well, that's how things are now times have changed, then, you know, I think we really need to ask why did Jesus come and die? Why did we need him? If we're not going to call anything sin, you know. And so I found myself really just going.

Speaker 2: 20:19

I don't think either side is right, and you know there's nothing I can do. I can't hate my kid, I can't hate him enough to get him to heaven, but at the same time I refuse to love him straight to hell, and so I knew I was going to have to forge a path in the middle that taught me how to love my child right where he's at, for who he is and as my child, but love him in the truth, never compromising on my values, never, ever underestimating that God comes to deliver and heal people, and never believing. You know that there's not miracles that could happen and that he could come in and save any of us. He saved me from my sin. I know he could save anybody else from theirs.

Speaker 1: 21:00

Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely yeah. I wish we had time to get into more of that particular conversation. I don't think we have time to do that, but I understand that response and those two sides. They both challenged him to accept.

Speaker 2: 21:29

What exactly?

Speaker 2: 21:29

is a battle plan, they both challenged him to accept what exactly is a battle plan. So I knew right away that I probably couldn't get up and just be saying some kind of willy-nilly prayers Like, oh dear Lord, save my kid today. I knew that I was going to need there was going to be good days, I knew there was going to be bad days and I knew I was going to need a plan written out to walk me through all the times. And so God just gave me a very simple five-step plan. It's probably things people are doing anyway, but I wrote them out so I would have them and I could use them every single day. The first step is the word.

Speaker 2: 21:54

We all pick a verse. Pick a verse, find a verse in the Bible that talks about your situation, talks about your, that speaks to you, that maybe the Lord has given you or that you have found, and pray that verse. Pray that verse every single day over your child. I write that verse everywhere. I put it in my phone. When my child or children call, they all have a verse. That verse rolls across the phone. It rolls across the phone. It rolls across the phone before I answer it, and so I put that verse. Wherever I can put it? I put it on my bathroom mirror, I put it in my drawer, I put it in my car when I'm sitting at the stoplight, I can pull it out and I can pray that verse. And so find a verse that speaks to your child, pray it every single day, never stop praying it.

Speaker 2: 22:41

The second one is worship. We worship in our group. You know, the Lord is worthy of our worship. He is good and he is a holy God and he is worthy to be worshiped. He's worthy to be worshiped in the good times and the bad times my circumstances, that doesn't matter because he is worthy to be worshiped. And so we worship in our group, and so we have a list group, and so we we have a list of songs. Find some songs, find two or three worship songs that speak to you and put those on when those bad days come and and they will come. I don't have all good days. Last week was a really bad week and I spent a lot of time crying last week, to be honest with you. And so what did I do? I went back to my battle plan and I put on that worship music that's to me.

Speaker 1: 23:21

Three prayer.

Speaker 2: 23:22

Make a list of things to pray. We have a list in our group, just a good place to start. Find 10 prayers, 10 things that you want to pray every day for your child or your family, and write those down. Pray them every single day. Don't stop praying. Four is declare God's promises. Look up five or 10 promises in the Bible. The book is full of promises. Just find the 10 that you like. Start declaring those promises every single day. Declare them aloud. Don't let Satan get in your head. Don't let him try to tell you things aren't going to change, because God's word is true and his promises are true. So start declaring those promises. And the fifth step is very easy Find a community. Join us at Battle, cry Moms, and if that's not the right place for you, find two or three friends that are going to come along beside you and pray with you and believe with you.

Speaker 2: 24:15

Get friends that will stand with you, not ones that will talk about it behind your back. Find the ones that will say you know what? This is nothing that God can't fix, and we're going to go together before the throne and we're going to lift up your child until he comes back. So that's just the easy five-step battle plan.

Speaker 1: 24:32

I love it. I love it. We've got to find some people to find that whenever they are in need of that five-step plan, you seem to have a friend right now that's willing to stand by you. Here's a comment from Honest Christian Conversations. Deborah's a powerhouse, lovely woman in her heart for this difficult topic. I really enjoy chatting with her on my podcast too. Battle Cry Moms is amazing. You already have some friends out here willing to support you.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Very good. We love it. We love everybody that wants to partner with us.

Speaker 1: 25:02

Yeah, I love that. I love that. One final question in regards to that, and then we'll move on. We're getting pretty close to the end of our episode.

Speaker 1: 25:08

For today, one of the things that I personally found we have some challenges in our household with one of our daughters Not exactly the same same, but to a degree similar and I think I I've battled the biggest thing was not that I I had a issue with loving my daughter even in the midst of the situation. I think one thing you mentioned, which is consistency, not just in prayer and worship. I think that'd be consistent in the love part too, because that has me you're saying that I love this person the way Christ loved me, or because Christ loved me and Christ loves always been consistent. So it's like the struggle for me was showing that consistently Right, and then no one.

Speaker 1: 25:54

How do you love somebody that you don't recognize? How do you love somebody that you don't doesn't look the same as the person that you don't recognize? How do you love somebody that you don't look the same as the person that you started out loving? They change drastically. My wife tells me all the time that I've changed and everything. She doesn't stop loving me because of that If I changed to somebody else that was a polar opposite to what we started off being. That's different. That could then make things a lot difficult. But how are you doing that part? How are you being consistently loving? Do you mind briefly answering that consistently loving in this situation and not bringing your own stuff into it and just continuing to love without conditions, if that makes sense?

Speaker 2: 26:36

Yeah, for me I think it's definitely been. The challenge has been that I am changing, and I always joke that my child was transgender, but I'm the one that's changing and so had we not been walking through this, I wouldn't know the Lord like I know Him right now. And so I definitely have changed in my life the more I grow closer to Him. And so I ask Him all the time, the Lord, to blind me, and if it takes to physically blind my eyes, then to do it, but to blind me for the things I'm seeing on the outside and to pray and believe for my child because of His heart. I think it says in the Word that God doesn't look at the outside, he looks of his heart. You know. I think it says, you know in the word that you know God doesn't look at the outside, he looks at the heart, and I I believe that's one of the reasons, because the outside could change the things we're going to do is we're going to change, but his heart is the same, you know, as it always was, and I think as the church, the capital C church, we have to do a better job of training parents, and you know we have these baby dedications and we pray Jeremiah 29, 11, and we pretend, like you know, everybody's going to have this hope and this amazing future because that's what the word says. Well, yeah, that is what the word says, but we leave out the part where you know Jeremiah was in captivity for 70 years and there might be some bad times in there. So we don't prepare parents that things may not be picture Pinterest perfect, and so when these things happen, we don't know where to go and where to turn because the church isn't walking us through the hard things in life, and so we have to do better about training up parents to love, and it's a daily battle.

Speaker 2: 28:17

There are days that I can love strongly with the things I see, and there are days I am just like you're kidding me. If I could come over there right now I would be grounding you, but I love fiercely. I always joke that I am still a mama bear and that's never going to change. Things. Know, things aren't what I wish they were, but I love my child and I will still come at you. You know, if I, if I find somebody that you know talking about my kid, I'm going to come at you, just like I would have back, you know, when they were in high school. And so I think we have to do better about closing our eyes and not getting caught up on the things we see and get caught up on the things that are on the inside. That's what we have to do, that's what I have to continue to do in my life and I pray that's what others continue to do as well.

Speaker 1: 29:13

I love that. Just a few more questions. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. I love the transparency, by the way.

Speaker 2: 29:18

All right.

Speaker 1: 29:18

So if you weren't doing battle, mom, we talked about it a little bit in our pre-interview chat. I didn't even give you time to even think about it. I know it's a tough question. If you weren't doing battle, mom, what's Debra doing?

Speaker 2: 29:31

You know, I was a children's pastor for years and I've been a preschool teacher and so I think I would probably still be pastoring kids or teaching. You know, I think that I would be a crafter. I kind of I'm real crafty, so I would. I'm a little crafty. I probably would be making it.

Speaker 2: 29:55

I know we talked about beforehand how I love I'm just like Jesus, only with more glitter. So I can be driving around and if I see some junk on the street corner, you know people are throwing that away Like I want to grab it and I want to transform it and make something beautiful out of it, just like Jesus does. He doesn't throw us away because we've got ugliness on the outside. He brings us in and makes us beautiful, and I want to do that with the junk that people throw away.

Speaker 1: 30:21

I love the idea. My wife would probably lose it right now because she loved the idea as well. But that mentality can only go over so far. You have to have an entire mansion to fill up all the refurbishing projects that you want to do. You get why this is not feasible, right?

Speaker 2: 30:40

Yeah, well, you know.

Speaker 1: 30:41

I don't know.

Speaker 2: 30:42

A mansion in heaven has a lot of furniture to redo.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Oh yeah, yeah, I hear you, though. I hear you. I love this. You ended so many other different things and I know that we're running out of time. I just want to touch on it a little bit your love for photography. One of the things and this is social media for me, is not the best place in the world. If it wasn't for podcasts, I probably wouldn't be doing it, probably at all. To be fair, one of the things I get a lot of joy at is when I go on there and I find people who share these beautiful pictures, this scenic, especially when it's real. It's not the AI generated with, like the real scenic. Yes, it, it does. It makes me want to travel, makes me want to go somewhere, and it, just it does. Photography. This is obviously a passion of yours. How to get started and how are you using it to kind of, uh, yeah?

Speaker 2: 31:34

you know you know, I'll tell you how I I loved photography when I was in high school and, as we said before, I grew up very poor, and so I don't know how my mama did it, but when I was a sophomore in high school, one day she presented me with this little Nikon camera and I still have it to this day.

Speaker 2: 31:53

I know and so I. That's how I learned and I developed my skill of photography and I have to thank my mama for that, because I don't know how she ever saved up the money to get it. But she did and and I still have it and I love it, and so I do photography. I love to take pictures of people. I love all of that. But the older I get, I'm really getting into birds.

Speaker 2: 32:17

I call myself the lazy backyard photographer, cause there's there comes an age. Maybe you're not at that age yet, but one day you hit this age and all of a sudden you look out the window and you're like is that a? Is that a Cardinal? I mean, you start looking at birds that you never would have noticed before. It's like all of a sudden, like God has like removed this, like barrier on my eyes and he has opened up that we have birds in our backyard and so I enjoy sitting out in our cabana and I just like photographing the birds. We have a. The last two summers we have had a albino sparrow come to our backyard.

Speaker 1: 32:52

And.

Speaker 2: 32:52

I know I've gotten some pictures not too many great pictures of it because it's very elusive but I'm hoping he comes back the third summer this year and I'm going to try to get some good pictures of him. And so I use it as a ministry. I love to bless people again. You know, I grew up without a lot of stuff and so there wasn't a lot of money to take pictures and have pictures, and I and my older brother and sister were twins and back they were born in 66. And so, if you think about that, there weren't a lot of twins even back then, especially like a boy and a girl, so all of these photographers would take pictures of the twins. And so we have all of these like massive photos of my brother and sister when we were growing up, because they were the cutest little kids.

Speaker 2: 33:34

But then I came along and I was like six weeks old before anybody thought, you know, we should probably get the camera out and take a picture of her. And so I think now that's why I like to take photos is because I want people to have those memories Maybe some of them that I didn't have. But I love photography, I love old school photography with film. I love thinking about the picture before you take it, having to process it in your head instead of just you know, pushing the button a thousand times and going to your computer and editing it. I like that one and done.

Speaker 1: 34:06

I love that, all right. One final question. You know we talked a little bit. We talked about I don't know how we got to a convo about vaccines and food supplies. I'm not sure how that even happened, but but we were talking about coffee. We were talking about coffee and and and the coffee snobbery that yes, I think I noticed that.

Speaker 1: 34:27

I think you may have noticed in me as well, but it's fine, uh, but talk about healthy living and sustainability and just things that support small businesses. Share your heart real quick about your feelings about that, and I don't know if coffee plays a part in that at all, but any coffee is fine by me. I'm good with it, but go ahead you know coffee plays a part in everything.

Speaker 2: 34:52

I think God has kind of brought all of this and allowed us to walk through.

Speaker 2: 35:00

This is for me to start asking some hard questions in life you know, and I think that if you look at what's going on with society, all of a sudden we have all of these diseases and we have all of these children that don't know if they're boys or if they're girls. We didn't have this when I was growing up, and so I think we have to ask ourselves what changed, besides Satan and his demons, which obviously is affecting culture. But I think it's fair and OK to ask the hard questions about what has changed, and I think we should start looking at some of the things, like our food supply and the chemicals that we ingest. My sister died of colon cancer about 10 years ago before she ever hit 50.

Speaker 2: 35:43

And you know, it was kind of then that I really started asking myself, like where are all these chemicals coming in our food and on my coffee that I'm drinking? And I want to make sure that I am eating and ingesting and doing the things that I can do without being totally crazy with it. But what can I do to adjust my life to make sure I'm eating pure and taking care of the body that God has given me? And so I think that I do like expensive coffee. That is one of my guilty pleasures in life. I want some expensive coffee. That is one of my guilty pleasures in life. I want some good coffee.

Speaker 2: 36:16

I found a small friend one of my battle cry moms is a coffee roaster, and so I get coffee from her and I love it. You know, I try to use skincare and soaps and things that don't have chemicals in it, and, you know, I think we should all always ask about vaccines. I think we should just be informed, you should just be informed. You should just be informed and you should just make your own decisions on you know the things that you're putting in your body, and so that's kind of my thoughts. On some of that. I think God has given us a brain, and I think it's time to use some of those brains and start asking questions as to what changed since I was a kid to where we are today.

Speaker 1: 36:53

I love it. I love it. I wish I can go longer than that. That coffee conversation sounds real good right now. Your website is battlecrymomscom.

Speaker 2: 37:04

Yes.

Speaker 1: 37:04

If you're listening and viewing today, you can join Debra and her team in praying for prodigals and for everything else that they're lifting up in prayer. It's good to have a community, and this sounds like it's a very strong one. I haven't heard anything about the coffee community. I don't know why I'm not a part of that.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Well, you need to start one of those. Why are we not doing that?

Speaker 1: 37:23

Yes, I don't know I'm bringing that up right now, but it's something to think about because I'm in need of a coffee community.

Speaker 2: 37:33

Yes, me too, me too.

Speaker 1: 37:35

You already have one, so thank you very much on that one. I need one. I mean I need to hook up, but thank you for jumping on here. This was so much fun. Thank you for sharing your transparent story.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 37:46

About what you're doing with Better Quiet, mom, and how it was founded in your day and just your life. It's been a pleasure, deborah, thank you. Yeah, any closing thoughts for our listeners and viewers that are watching today. I know there's a lot of uh things that you're really good at. Obviously, I didn't even get into your book. I mean, they have time for it, but you know, you just read different things.

Speaker 2: 38:05

But any closing thoughts for our viewers and listeners today you know, just know that my motto is no one fights alone, and so if you're out there listening and you have a prodigal child or you feel like you're all alone, you're not. That's a lie from the pit of hell. You're not alone. There's other people going through the same thing, and so please reach out. Reach out. You can find me on my website, deborahmcnichcom. Just go on there and send me a message and I'll talk to you. I'd be glad to just talk to you and just encourage you any way I can, and you can get a copy of my book on there or on Amazon. It's called battle cry. Love goes to war, and it's just the. The wrestling is of my heart and what the Lord has taught me in this season, so I hope it just encourages people.

Speaker 1: 38:45

I love it. I love it. I love for you to drop that in the comments on the episode. On the YouTube, on the YouTube link and that way on a YouTube link. That way people can find it whenever they need to, where I can get Battlefire Moms and then the book, our free book and, of course, your personal website too. Thank you for doing this. Thank you so much. I'm sure we will stay in touch. I need to be part of that copy hookup ASAP. Thank you so much again for everything you've done with this and what you're doing for so many people around the country. Thank you for doing this. Thank you, god bless you. Have a great day. Thank you very much. Have a great day everybody.